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ETVA

Looking out into the Universe
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Member Since: 8/2010  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Pondering the Impact of Youth on Society

Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:30 PM EST
education, opinion, parenting
By etva

© 2012 by etva

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I recently came across several articles and seeds on NV, suggesting that the answer to the world’s economic problem is to provide our youth with positive education opportunities to better prepare them for a successful job.  Most people seem to agree with this, and add that appropriate parental influence is also an important factor.

It’s difficult to argue against this rational, but that’s just what I’m going to do, because I’m a country girl, and I know that you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink it.


But, say others, eventually the horse will drink when it’s thirsty enough. 

Well, no.  In fact, if there’s something wrong with the water, many farm animals will collapse from dehydration before drinking it.  I know this, because we had that very thing happen, and had to completely drag the pond to fix the quality of the water.  Sadly, we had a bunch of dead animals before we figured out the real problem (stagnate water.) The solution was incredibly expensive and time consuming, but failure to fix the problem would only have resulted in bigger problems.

But, say others, humans are much smarter than animals, and it would never come to that sad ending.

Yes, our children are smart and observant – even those who refuse to apply themselves in school.  They have passion and energy – and hormones and attitude.  Teachers and parents (I happen to be both) can attempt to guide and direct youth, but in the end, we cannot force them to be what WE want them to be.  There comes a point when carrots and sticks will have no impact – usually right around the start of puberty.

But, say others, puberty has existed since the dawn of man, and this too shall pass.

Yes, it will, but I will argue that often, that passion and energy -- the hormones and attitude, can combine to have a subtle, yet pervasive impact on society, sometimes leading to an unexpected snowball effect of change.

Many years ago, I had the opportunity to study behind the Iron Curtain in East Germany, and witnessed firsthand, just such a change; the impact of a bored and rebellious youth on a stagnate society.   The ultimate result was the fall of the Soviet regime.

But, say others, that was communism – a flawed economic system, implemented by a corrupt totalitarian regime.  It’s only natural that the youth recognized its limitations and fought for better opportunities.  Our system of democracy is different, and can’t be compared to the controlled and manipulated Soviet societies.

Really?  Are we really that different?

Does America preach that our system is the best, offering equal opportunities to all?  Do we deliver propaganda through a controlled and biased media to influence and manipulate public opinion? Do we limit and control the dissemination of information in the name of security?  Do we channel the majority of our resources to military and security initiatives, rather than for the economic benefit of our citizens?  Do we use our military to influence and promote our foreign policy?   Do we have an elite social minority, with opportunities unavailable or out of reach to the rank and file citizens?  Do we have corrupt leaders, more concerned with power and money, than the well being and prosperity of the citizens?  Is our economy collapsing, perhaps because the system has failed to result in the promised benefits to the average citizen?

I’m not writing this article to argue the similarities and differences of these two systems, but from my perspective, we are looking an awful lot like our former “enemy.” 

My argument is that our children are viewing our society from an unbiased perspective.  Just like the youth in the former Soviet states, they are seeing the hypocrisy of the system, and they are dissatisfied with the “opportunities” provided to them.  Many have adopted an attitude of irreverent non-compliance.  They have no respect for authority, and little fear of the potential consequences of their actions.  After all, their parents complied and played the game, and all too often, it failed to bring happiness and prosperity.

So how did this attitude of rebellious non-compliance affect communist societies?

In short, it created an underground network of young adults without “official” jobs, living in their parents’ homes, existing within a separate, unofficial economy, known as the Black Market.  They traded goods and services outside of the “official” economy, sort of like a primitive version of eBay.  Everything was available, and often of much better quality than what was sold at the communist version of the local Wal-mart.

Does this sound familiar?  Are we seeing such things in our own society?

As more and more people in communist societies turned to the unofficial economy in order to survive, the collapse of the official, state-controlled economy speeded up into an unexpected snowball effect, which I would argue, eventually contributed greatly to the fall of the Berlin Wall, and ultimately the collapse of the Soviet empire.

But, say others, our children have much better opportunities presented to them, than the communist youth had.  Why would they not take advantage of them?

In a word?  Entertainment!

It’s important to note, that the youth I met weren’t rebelling because of the lack of opportunity.  Rather, they were refusing the structured opportunities presented to them.  They were bored and looking for excitement and entertainment of their own choosing; something to inspire their passion and energy.

My point with this article is that human nature and the passions of youth are the same everywhere, and no society or form of government can completely control or suppress them.  If we want our children to embrace opportunities, we need to inspire them, and what has worked in the past does not seem to be working now.

They see that the system has led to stagnation, and more and more of our youth are refusing to drink from the well of hypocrisy, choosing instead to create their own underground water supply, because we as a society are too blinded by our old world view, to see that our pond needs to be dragged in order to truly fix the problem.

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etva

We should never underestimate the power of passion. How many of us have lost that passion for life, and spend our time desperately trying to find something to inspire it?

CoH will be firmly enforced. There is no right or wrong in my articles; only discussion of different perspectives. If you come to argue political partisanship, please take it elsewhere.

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:31 PM EST
mstanley2265

Good points, very good. We 'older' ones should never overlook the passion of youth. The OWS points out the fact that they are overburdened with student loans and yet have difficulty finding a job. We upended the system or so we thought in the 60's and 70's, apparently we didn't do a good enough job. Later, we tolerated those who gamed the system for their own financial advantage. The youth gen are inheriting a mess. Come spring, we'll see how or if there is more to come.

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:56 PM EST
Zero-

the youth is not in good shape, we as those who live today must make ready for the future.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:58 PM EST
gmross

capt.ace23, I must disagree the youth are in good shape, the problem isn't with the youth it is with the "system" that we are asking them to live under. The rebels and protesters of the past as etva pointed out have "sold out" to the "system" and have in turn become the very thing that they were protesting against, look at the protestors of the past, John Kerry for one, were is he, in Washington working for the system. The thing is as etva stated it isn't the kids that need to change it is the system that we are asking them to live under that needs to change.

  • 5 votes
#1.3 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:22 PM EST
etva

it isn't the kids that need to change it is the system that we are asking them to live under that needs to change.

Not only do the kids not need to change, I don't think anyone can force them to. I think we're trying to force them to play the game of our youth, using rules we established. What I see, is that they aren't interested in playing our game. They've seen that the rules can be manipulated and the deck is stacked against them, so they are taking their ball and going home.

If we refuse to address their concerns, and inspire their passions, they will respond by refusing to play the game, something most adults are afraid to do, because the current game is the only one we've ever known, and we've been told our whole lives how it's the "best game in town."

The youth gen are inheriting a mess.

Agreed, M. And they are well aware of it and fail to see why they should have to fix it, when they can just walk away.

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:36 PM EST
gmross

etva, maybe they're right, maybe walking away is the answer.

  • 4 votes
#1.5 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:54 PM EST
etva

maybe they're right, maybe walking away is the answer.

I am pondering the same thing, gmross. The problems seem so complicated and pervasive throughout the system. I can't find any answers that I think would really work.

Whatever the answer is, I think it will be painful, which is why so many of us adults don't want to face it, but our youth see things from a different perspective.

I once sat in a basement in Bosnia with several young girls, with shells impacting around us. I was terrified, but they shrugged and said, "It will either hit us or not, and there's nothing we can do to stop it." And so, they sat there discussing what they would wear on their upcoming dates.

  • 5 votes
#1.6 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:04 PM EST
Dale95


("If we want our children to embrace opportunities, we need to inspire them, and what has worked in the past does not seem to be working now.")

And that's the golden key to success---"Inspiration" …but…. HOW? How do we do that?

Did you ever see "Freedom Writer's", with Hilary Swank? A very, very enlightening glimpse into the real, 'street-world of our youth'!!! And it's a true story, about a brand-new English teacher, with a passionate vision to help troubled 'gansta' kids, in Long Beach, Calif..

And she did it too. She connected with them… and inspired them to unite… and she lit their torches to become the best that they could be. So…, it can be done!!!

But… her biggest obstacle… most difficult challenge… and steadfast resistance, came not from the 'street-hardened-gangster-mentality' of the kids… but from the 'Old Dog' teachers that ruled the roost… and the uncompromising administration that didn't want any new changes that might rock their inflexible (small box) boats.

And that's the problem in a nut shell. Our current cultural hierarchy is rigid with frigid bean-counters at the helm… frozen-up with the fear of what change might change..., and dramatically resistant to any new ideas that might make waves. And the only way to advance or survive in that kind of cloned cronyism of structural modus-operandi is to follow the orders… without question… or, 'hit the road'. It's a, "My way… or the highway!" kind of mentality and it seems to be universal in this sluggish culture of complacency.

  • 6 votes
#1.7 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:32 PM EST
etva

An excellent comment, Dale, and I very much agree with you.

And that's the problem in a nut shell. Our current cultural hierarchy is rigid with frigid bean-counters at the helm… frozen-up with the fear of what change might change..., and dramatically resistant to any new ideas that might make waves. And the only way to advance or survive in that kind of cloned cronyism of structural modus-operandi is to follow the orders… without question… or, 'hit the road'. It's a, "My way… or the highway!" kind of mentality and it seems to be universal in this sluggish culture of complacency.

I wish I could vote that up more than once. We are stuck in a rut, but fear taking the necessary steps to get out of it. But our passionate children don't have that fear. The minute we aren't paying attention, they will jump out of the vehicle and into the mud to play. So what if they get dirty? It's just a part of life and they want to embrace it, because it's fun.

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:09 PM EST
Dale95

("So what if they get dirty? It's just a part of life and they want to embrace it, because it's fun.")

Oh, oh, oh.... And that's why I love kids... And all of my dogs. They live in the moment and don't give a rats ass about tomorrow's profits, or "What Will People Think?", or how will that affect my insurance policy...? or my retirement annuity...? or my standing in the "Club of Choice"... or any other phony priority that this culture uses to judge its success and stature.

It's not working!!! It's CORRUPT with Narcissistic-Phony-ism...! Let's fix it, one kid at a time… and then when they take over this world… we too can play in the mud, once again. LOL. Signed, Peter Pan.

  • 5 votes
#1.9 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:05 PM EST
etva

They live in the moment and don't give a rats ass about tomorrow's profits,

Exactly! But even when I lived that way, in the back of my mind, I was thinking, play now, work later. These days, they aren't even considering the eventuality of conformity. And maybe that's a good thing. I just don't know anymore.

we too can play in the mud, once again. LOL.

LOL! Don't tell anyone, but I still play in the mud and make huge messes! *grins*

  • 4 votes
#1.10 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:08 AM EST
believer-369603

We should never underestimate the power of passion.

Worth repeating.

I grew up, in every sense of the term, during the Vietnam/Watergate era. Youth can make a difference

  • 4 votes
#1.11 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:36 AM EST
etva

((((Believer)))) Haven't seen you for awhile!

Besides the fact that youth still have that seemingly endless passion, they also aren't yet "indoctrinated" into accepted society. Lots of connotations associated with that word, but what I mean is, as adults, we tend to accummulate responsibilities (job, spouse, children) and once we do, most of us are sucked into a habitual day-to-day life of survival. After awhile, we don't notice much of what goes on around us; we are often numb with responsibility -- our passion buried.

But our youth notice everything - more precisely, they notice most things we don't want them to, like when we tell them to do as we say, rather than do what we do. I guess we parents taught them to notice hypocrisy. Funny how that happens:)

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:49 AM EST
ryoushi12

Passion can be a dangerous thing with out wisdom to guide it.

I point out the fact that the Nazis tended to draw the greatest number of young Germans to their movment, because of its preaching looking forward and building a new and better Germany.

And, I remember some of the really silly things that I got passionate about when I was young, but fortunately grew out of.

There is some truth to the saying youth is wasted on the young.

As for noticing the wrong things, yes the young are very good at that, I remember I was. But, how good are they at seeing the difference between the charlatan and the person offering good solutions, especially if the charlatan is much more flashy and exciting. Where is the experience to draw on to recognize the bad?

  • 3 votes
#1.13 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:31 PM EST
Reply
Anna-90776

What an outstanding piece of writing! Well thought through and well said!

My thoughts as I read were the turbulent 60's! I am a firm believer in the pendulum swinging both ways and have always believed that eventually it does. Yes they are bored as they were then; the difference now is their parents are angry too. Our parents (or parents of the Flower Children) were not angry. They were caught off guard by their children's uprising and disrespect. Today the parents are an example of disrespect but..well...what are they to respect?? A government that has completely quit on them? A culture that is so uptight on one hand and so baffled by the outrageous anal attitudes on the other end?(little pun, I guess).

The 2 party system is polar opposites. There seems to be no meeting place. My God, they shout out "liar" at the State of the Union. Had I have been 16 when I saw that I would not have been flabbergast I would have thought, "Oh that's what we are: British Parliament." We aren't teaching respect and we certainly aren't giving it.

I can't personally phantom trying to lead by example to be an inspiration when I can't explain what's going on in this Nation! So I hope the kids of today are learning some History! And I hope they see that they too can start a badly needed revolution! But I hope also that they have the smarts to lead us forward; to swing the pendulum towards progress and open minds and character. Umm, am I responding with an article??! Sorry! But you inspired me to respond.

Just an outstanding post etva! Outstanding!!

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:47 PM EST
etva

Thank you Anna, for reading and commenting!

the difference now is their parents are angry too.

Wow! What an outstanding observation, that I completely overlooked while writing this. And I so agree! That must certainly have a major impact on our children, but what I find interesting is that many of the school-aged and college-aged youth I come into contact with aren't so much angry, as they are disengaged and unconcerned with the views of their parents and society.

They are aware, but they choose not to debate the system.

what are they to respect??

A very good question, and one I find difficult to answer, because I have lost so much respect for things that once had meaning to me. What am I to show my children that they should respect? Where should I encourge them to direct their passion, when I struggle to inspire my own?

Perhaps they are responding exactly as I have shown them by my actions. I love my mother, but when she has crossed the threshhold of her 4th drink, we leave, because I will not sit and be verbally abused, nor listen to her extreme diatribes, but nor will I argue and be disrespectful in return. I can't force her to stop drinking, and so we disengage -- peaceful non-acceptance.

I wish I still had the passion and energy the kids have, but like you, I do hope they are able to find answers that remain hidden from me.

  • 4 votes
#2.1 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:19 PM EST
Reply
58rose

great article etva, do they still teach history in school? the youth to day can learn from it, even right now. there is a right and wrong here and has always been, it is not one sided. IMO i try to think like this, treat others like you treat your family. now not all family will get that treatment but if you treat them that deserve it all will work out. IMO.

hope this makes scene?

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:34 PM EST
etva

Thanks 58! They do still teach history, though it's often called social studies in elementary school, or civics in middle school, and it's really more of an outline compared to what we probably had as "history" when we were in school.

I agree that things are not one-sided, but I'm not so sure "right and wrong" will help us make progress at this point. What I'm saying is that perhaps we need new ways to inspire our youth.

And I do agree that we need to treat others with respect, and if that's not possible, then sometimes it's better to walk away. At least that has been my experience. I guess what I'm saying, is that I see our youth walking away, because they have lost respect for the system.

At any rate, thanks for reading my ponderings.

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:13 PM EST
58rose

etva, don't ya think it about what the parents teach they kids too. my grand kids do still have interest in what is being said at home by my sons. the table is set and all must take part, this what was passed down by my wife and i.

respect for the system, they need to be told over and over again, it can be changed. if ya don't set the table, no one is going to eat.

  • 5 votes
#3.2 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:30 PM EST
etva

I understand your point, and I agree that parents are important, but there also, the carrot and stick method will only go so far. Ultimately our children will make choices based on their own beliefs and passions.

For those who find enjoyment and meaning in something, those traditions will continue. But for those who hated family meals (for example) they will abandon the tradition as soon as they can make their own choices.

We cannot force our children to live as we did, and truthfully, in many cases it's not possible, even if they want to. Most parents in my neighborhood both work and come home long after dinner, thanks to circumstances and often traffic. There are no family meals, because they are just struggling to survive.

I don't have all the answers 58, but I do know that force will not work, and whatever does work will need to inspire passion and excitement in our youth. They have to have something to respect.

  • 3 votes
#3.3 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:53 PM EST
58rose

etva, i didn't mean to say that it was forced on them, and i don't have all the answers either. i just think that if ya turn them in the right direction it will help.

something went way wrong here, and i think they are going to have to fix it.

  • 5 votes
#3.4 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:36 AM EST
etva

i just think that if ya turn them in the right direction it will help.

It could help, and certainly does some of the time. But what I'm seeing is a broader trend of kids who are refusing to choose any direction, because they aren't inspired by the choices. They are refusing to play the game, because they think it's pointless. They aren't interested in winning or losing; being right or being wrong. They are searching for meaning and something to respect, and they aren't finding it, where society is telling them they should look.

something went way wrong here, and i think they are going to have to fix it.

I agree, but I worry that we are raising a lost generation. I wish I had answers to give them, but I haven't found them either. *sigh*

  • 2 votes
#3.5 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:02 AM EST
Reply
Dare To Hope

Good article etva, and alot of good points.

  • 5 votes
Reply#4 - Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:41 PM EST
etva

Thanks Dare!

  • 2 votes
#4.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:00 AM EST
Reply
Grisham

Awesome, awesome article, etva. You really outdid yourself.

I think the US is steadily losing her rights. NDAA and SOPA are two big bills (one passed and the other didn't yet) but when the government decided not to endorse the Bill, they shut down one of the biggest sites on the Internet. That wasn't an accident. It's like the government already knows what it wants to do and just passes legislation to give their predetermined actions more justification.

The Occupy movement was smothered by police brutality and corrupt media. As people gathered to protest the treatment they've had to suffer, the media made fun of them.

That's just a few examples. The scary thing is that the more the US gets away with it, the more governments in other countries learn about suppression and how easy it is. That's why I pay acute attention to US news even though I don't live there.

I'm a fan of educating our youth. The US is falling in the education rankings.

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:23 AM EST
etva

Thanks Grish! The US is falling in many rankings, primarily because we refuse to accept that we need to change. Change is necessary to prevent stagnation, and ignoring (or suppressing) the problems won't make them go away.

It's like the government already knows what it wants to do and just passes legislation to give their predetermined actions more justification.

Interestingly enough, the middle schoolers noted that very thing, texting like wildfire. If the internet is the new opium of the masses, you can bet that our teens will take note of that which interferes with their fix.

They seem to see it as an attempt to deny them their alternative world -- their underground network, and they are well aware of the hypocrisy.

  • 5 votes
#5.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:52 AM EST
Grisham

The funny thing about SOPA was that it pitted corporation against corporation. You had Google and internet sites on one side and artists and production studios and media empires on the other. It was the only time something got done too. Everything else passed because not very many people protested.

  • 5 votes
#5.2 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:20 AM EST
etva

Yeah, I think there's a message in that, and I don't think that battle is over.

I'm still struggling to understand the intent behind the players and allignments (not necessarily regarding SOPA, but overall.) The Internet is like an underground economy, and I think we can expect additional fights for control and regulation. On the otherhand, even internet sites are going to promote profit for themselves, but it needs to be done very carefully, or they will lose users - especially youth.

  • 4 votes
#5.3 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:00 AM EST
Reply
believer-369603

Beautifully and powerfully written, etva,

Teacher gets an apple :-0

  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 AM EST
etva

Thank you Believer! Most people don't get my perspective, because it doesn't fit properly into regular box sizes, but I still try to gift it occasionally. LOL:)

  • 3 votes
#6.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:02 AM EST
believer-369603

it doesn't fit properly into regular box sizes,

I've noticed.

but I still try to gift it occasionally. LOL:)

Zip-lock baggies sometimes work for me

  • 3 votes
#6.2 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:11 AM EST
etva

Zip-lock baggies sometimes work for me

LOL! I think I've been spending too much time in the Korner. My first thought was an irreverent inclination to ask about holes! *grins*

  • 3 votes
#6.3 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:24 AM EST
Reply
Jackie-2759125

In short, it created an underground network of young adults without "official" jobs, living in their parents' homes, existing within a separate, unofficial economy, known as the Black Market. They traded goods and services outside of the "official" economy, sort of like a primitive version of eBay. Everything was available, and often of much better quality than what was sold at the communist version of the local Wal-mart.

Does this sound familiar? Are we seeing such things in our own society?

As more and more people in communist societies turned to the unofficial economy in order to survive, the collapse of the official, state-controlled economy speeded up into an unexpected snowball effect, which I would argue, eventually contributed greatly to the fall of the Berlin Wall, and ultimately the collapse of the Soviet empire.

But, say others, our children have much better opportunities presented to them, than the communist youth had. Why would they not take advantage of them?

In a word? Entertainment!

It's not just young people struggling with this. My husband and I, on a fixed income with few options for entertainment also struggle with this. My husband is a hard core video gamer and uses Game fly to help with that. He was going to persue a Computer Sciences degree but if he had, he would be standing in unemployment lines or flipping burgers. When we got here to N Texas in 2009 he applied for numerous jobs and was rejected for them all. Jobs in retail, computers and unskilled labor were not options, those minimum wage jobs were already filled so he decided to persue a trade. He's persuing a 2 yr Associates in welding and when he's done, he will have his pick of jobs here. He has always been interested in blacksmithing - welding is a modern day version of it. Once he gets a job and some extra income we can use for hobbies, we both want to persue blacksmithing...but he has to earn the money honestly to be able to afford the entertainment.

Our young people are currently faced with the harsh reality of having visions of what they would like to do as professions and what they will have to do to survive. That's just the way of our current (and past)society. Downloading and selling pirated videos in the their parents basement is a road to jail, not freedom in our country. Our young people have a rough road ahead and will have to fight hard with their bodies and minds for meaniningful change. They will have to work hard for it to be possible to make a living doing what they like or love. We aren't there yet.

Enjoyed the article etva! Thank you for what you do!

  • 4 votes
Reply#7 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:36 AM EST
etva

Thanks, Jackie! I agree, adults are struggling too, and as Anna noted above, that is surely an important factor. The kids SEE this and recognize it for what it is, even when we don't.

They see us looking for passion, in a life where we struggle to make ends meet, despite education and playing by the rules. It screams hypocrisy to them, as they hear us tell them, "study, learn, and do what we tell you, so you will have a good job and an excellent life." Clearly, for many of us, it didn't work that way.

Our young people are currently faced with the harsh reality of having visions of what they would like to do as professions and what they will have to do to survive. That's just the way of our current (and past)society.

Agreed, and I think that's key to understanding their point of view. We are invested in our world view - that's how it has always been. Our youth are not. They say, why should it be like that? And they have the uncontrolled attitude and passion to say, I'm not interested in that, and not worry about the potential future consequences. If enough of them jump on that snowball, it will have a major impact on our society, and I see more and more of them supporting that perspective.

They will have to work hard for it to be possible to make a living doing what they like or love.

And that's another thing they don't agree with! LOL:) They simply don't accept that it should be difficult to pursue one's passion. From their perspective, just because adults are repeating what they were taught, doesn't make it true.

I cringe wondering where all this is going, because I am old, and much of my passion and energy has been replaced with habitual boredom and fear, but more and more, I find myself rooting for the kids, even if I don't know what answers they will find.

  • 4 votes
#7.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:41 AM EST
Reply
Vlad's dog

Damn Straight Etva!

I am not a parent so my take on this is a little skewed. I have taught for many years and kids can smell BS a mile away so this idea that we can teach them this ideal without bringing up the dark side does not count worth a dry cat turd in swaying them to be good and happy adults.

I spent time this weekend with my god daughter's first child, an 11 year old boy that has a 32 year old father that acts like a spoiled child. The father's main purpose, he thinks. is too impress his son.

My god daughter never married this fool but he has had a poor effect on his son. Now I will give him credit for instilling a strong work ethic in the boy but this youngster lacks a buddy who would talk to him like a guy friend would. Sometimes a father has to be just a guy with his son. Hell, even my Dad knew that.

That's where Uncle Vlad enters the picture. We had a ball on Friday night just being two guys.

Kids learn from a lot of different ways, most times it is from observing the adults around them.

  • 4 votes
Reply#8 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:48 AM EST
etva

Thanks Vlad!

kids can smell BS a mile away

Yes, they certainly can. Probably comes from the "seen and not heard" mentality -- they had to compensate! LOL:)

That's where Uncle Vlad enters the picture.

You don't have to be a parent to make a significant impact on a child -- thank goodness! I had a favorite Aunt, who taught me so much, just by being there and paying attention to me, though I certainly didn't recognize it at the time. In fact often, I think a non-parent can have the biggest impact on a child, because by the nature of the relationship, they are less "controlling or dictating."

  • 4 votes
#8.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
Reply
HollyKl

Wonderful article, etva. And, I think, right on point. One of the things I have been thinking a lot about lately is my belief that our society is in great need of a paradigm shift. It's not so much that we need to fix the status quo as that we need some radical changes, a new way of viewing what we think of as a successful society. And I think perhaps our young people will be the ones to make that happen -- not by design but, as you point out, by a refusal to participate in the expected. One of my nephews recently published a link to an article that talked about how many young people around the world are electing not to vote because they do not believe, as their parents do, that the vote carries any real power; they are not refusing to be or become politically active but they are refusing to be part of the established (and failed) political process. I was initially appalled when I first read it but then it occurred to me that this is the way major change comes about -- by a rejection of the established order rather than complacent acceptance of it.

If your assessment of our young people is accurate (and I think it is), that gives me a lot of hope because it means that all of our attempts to inculcate a blind obedience to the greed and shallowness of our current society are failing.

  • 4 votes
Reply#9 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:46 PM EST
etva

Thanks, Holly!

society is in great need of a paradigm shift. It's not so much that we need to fix the status quo as that we need some radical changes, a new way of viewing what we think of as a successful society.

As usual, we're in the same place with our thoughts! Maintaining the status quo will not fix the problems that brought us to this point. It's harder for adults to see that, because most of us have built our lives around that status quo. We are afraid to accept the truth, because the alternatives are too far out of our comfort zone.

young people around the world are electing not to vote because they do not believe, as their parents do, that the vote carries any real power; they are not refusing to be or become politically active but they are refusing to be part of the established (and failed) political process.

I can completely relate to this, and have been pondering the same thing. I tried to explain my thoughts in Mal's article, but like you were initially, I think he was appalled! LOL:)

that this is the way major change comes about -- by a rejection of the established order rather than complacent acceptance of it.

Exactly! By playing the game, and choosing the least damaging candidate, we are voting to maintain the status quo, and I am no longer convinced that it serves us or humanity well. The only way to change the status quo is to stop playing the game, because we cannot change it, within the rules, which were established precisely to maintain that status quo.

One of my nephews recently published a link to an article that talked about how many young people around the world are electing not to vote

Can you share the link? I'd love to read it.

  • 4 votes
#9.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:07 PM EST
HollyKl

Well, crap! My nephew switched over to Facebook's new "timeline" profile and now I can't find the link. Truth be told, I'm not sure how far back in 2011 he shared that. I'll keep looking and send it to you if I find it.

  • 3 votes
#9.2 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:55 PM EST
etva

Thanks and No worries. I can do some research myself:)

  • 3 votes
#9.3 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:39 PM EST
Jackie-2759125

how many young people around the world are electing not to vote because they do not believe, as their parents do, that the vote carries any real power; they are not refusing to be or become politically active but they are refusing to be part of the established (and failed) political process

Excellent comment here Holly - my husband who's 27 - has said that he's not sure if he's going to vote because he doesn't think it will matter. Texas is a Republican state and even if we vote for Obama, the Electoral College will ultimately decide. The Electoral College really pisses me off because it does make it seem like our votes don't matter.

  • 4 votes
#9.4 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:02 PM EST
HollyKl

Hi, Jackie. Yeah, I've been tempted to take the same approach myself -- not voting. BUT my fear is that if too many stay away from the polls some morally and ethically bankrupt loon like Newt Gingrich will end up as President. I guess I'd still rather try to make sure that we at least keep the lunacy out of government. Though it will probably be a losing battle in any case given the number of lunatics already in Congress. *sigh*

  • 3 votes
#9.5 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:17 PM EST
Anna-90776

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

PLEASE VOTE!

  • 4 votes
#9.6 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:20 PM EST
HollyKl

Oh, I'll vote -- despite my persistent feeling that my vote has been so diluted by special/corporate interests that it hasn't much oomph anymore...

  • 4 votes
#9.7 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:39 PM EST
etva

Anna, while I understand your feeling, and that quote has always fascinated me, I believe it must be applied in a context. If our vote only serves to promote one of two evils, we are still not doing anything to stop the evil -- rather we are supporting it and allowing it to triumph, out of fear. (Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.)

It may be a paradox (been seeing alot of those lately and have come to expect them), but I have had to consider, that sometimes the best option IS to do nothing. (I know - it's painful!)

BTW, there's quite some controversy over the author of that quote (one of the reasons it fascinates me -- been trying to track it.) What Burke said was this:

When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. Link

Perhaps more people need to unite in NOT voting for one of two bad choices, in order for us to finally get a good choice.

Just my two cents, though I certainly comprehend that most disagree.

  • 3 votes
#9.8 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:58 PM EST
Anna-90776

Ah, gee. I know you didn't want this to take a political turn...but just in response to not voting...When there is a large turn out; historically, the democrats win. Low turn out and the other team gets in. Now having said that I understand the country has come to a grinding halt! However, the man in power appoints the Supreme Court Judges and if for no other reason that is reason enough; imho.

I don't believe there is nobility in not voting; it serves no one. Not ourselves nor our future generations. While I certainly am a liberal and will always vote that way I want to explain that every vote counts. Not voting due to an electorate college undermines all the local folks who are on the ballot too trying to serve their communities. Votes are not limited to DC. There are State, County, City councilmen and commissioners and there are "issues". And besides, it just might inspire somebody's kid somewhere to get involved and lead a revolution; maybe right from his/her Oval Office:) just sayin' (I ain't startin' no political war, just want you to know I'm here and I'm participating:)

  • 2 votes
#9.9 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:21 PM EST
etva

LOL! I'm seeing Anna the Political Animal! *grins*

I know what you mean Anna, and I certainly understand your viewpoint; it was once mine. I have never NOT voted in an election, even when I lived overseas. I haven't made a final decision about my upcoming vote.

I agree that votes count, but I'm beginning to suspect they only count towards maintaining the status quo. Though the GOP candidates strike me as insane, while President Obama appears to be the epitome of a proper statesman, all of them, IMO, have supported and promoted corporate control and the loss of American freedoms. I strongly suspect, that this election, we will be voting to end our country as we once knew it, no matter who is elected. We just need a few more nails.

Maybe I just want to be able to say, "I didn't do it!" :-) j/k

  • 4 votes
#9.10 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:41 PM EST
Reply
Ralph 11

"Parents should conduct their arguments in quiet, respectful tones, but in a foreign language. You'd be surprised what an inducement that is to the education of children."

Miss Manners, Judith Martin

(Especially in todays world where it is becoming an employment and simply living necessity to be multi-lingual!)

  • 4 votes
Reply#10 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:53 PM EST
etva

LOL! What an amusing quote, and really quite true. I used to cuss in foreign languages, and darned if my kids didn't start repeating it! Oops.

Thanks for visiting, Ralph.

  • 3 votes
#10.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:44 PM EST
Reply
Dale95

("They see that the system has led to stagnation, and more and more of our youth are refusing to drink from the well of hypocrisy, choosing instead to create their own underground water supply, because we as a society are too blinded by our old world view, to see that our pond needs to be dragged in order to truly fix the problem.")

What a great article Etva…. Every time I read it, it seems to get better… and more poignant.

Corruptive stagnation in our 'Free Enterprise System'…, the "Monopoly" game is about over now…, and our kids know it…! We need a polar-shift in our thinking… a do-se-do of sorts… an 'about-face' in how we value our priorities…. We need to shift away from the 'me-my-and-mine' mentality---that very addicting and self-benefiting, but terminal disease---'Narcissistic Fibrosis'.

We need to shift our focus to the growing epidemic of apathetic-despondency in this culture, and we need to fix it… and show our kids how to fix it… with compassion… We need to look for and find inspiring solutions that tap into the many creative possible realities…. Maybe our kids can show us a few things in this area?

We need to redirect our sense of awareness…, stimulate our potential motivations…, and tweak our visions of conceptual dreams over to the altruistic side of passion… with brand new models of idealism. Just one little example: Volunteer a couple of hours a week to take some kittens and puppies into a children's hospital or a convalescent home for some glowing magical medicine. Exposing our kids to this kind of empowerment will plant seeds of inspiration they can exercise and pass on for the rest of their lives.

Think back to our not-to-distant past, when our elders were an important part of the family structure… filling critical roles in cooking, canning, knitting and darning… and sharing their wisdom of experience through their many stories with the youngsters. That was the balanced harmony in our past that linked the generations with bonding connections… Our elders are desperately waiting and wilting … for something to give them purpose and passion again. And that's just one of the missing links in today's isolated world of distracting social-saturation.

Specialization and diversion of each separate generation… into its own unique and competitive arena of conflicting values and goals… casting aside anything that doesn't fit into our own individual and personal plan of instant-gratification… is not healthy at all… think about the rising epidemic rates of Personality Disorders.

  • 5 votes
Reply#11 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:09 PM EST
Ralph 11

"The me-my-and-mine mentality"......

"Facebook users upload 7.5 billion photos EVERY MONTH. This raises reasonable suspicions not of terrorism but of narcissism, which is a national problem but not for law enforcement."

George Will

(And crosses all party lines)

  • 5 votes
#11.1 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:34 PM EST
etva

the "Monopoly" game is about over now…, and our kids know it…!

I agree, Dale, and that's an excellent analogy. The rich among us may win the game, but the problem is, who is left to play?

We need to look for and find inspiring solutions that tap into the many creative possible realities…. Maybe our kids can show us a few things in this area?

I suspect they will, but I think perhaps our generation may not agree with or even comprehend the realities they pursue. FB and video games seem pointless to many of us, but our children find something of value within. We worry about privacy issues, while our kids don't see the point.

I may not understand their perspective, but I'm not willing to discount it. Just because we don't see their vision, doesn't mean it isn't there or that it has no value.

desperately waiting and wilting … for something to give them purpose and passion again.

I believe it will be found, but not where any of us our expecting it. It's always in the last place we look:)

  • 3 votes
#11.2 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:57 PM EST
mstanley2265

uhhh, I think they found it, Sammy sezso just put it up....the Internet and not getting to download their music etc. Anonymous is calling for a boycott for the whole month of March 2012 of all copyright stuff on the net. And they said they're going to 'short sell' shares in all the companies they listed.

  • 3 votes
#11.3 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:41 PM EST
etva

Oh my! Things are getting interesting. Thanks for the link, M! Something to think about.

  • 2 votes
#11.4 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:04 PM EST
mstanley2265

The tweens and teens and twenty something, they like to 'share' their music, plus they all don't have a lot of money to buy the CD's and downloads. It is the why of all that sharing stuff. What the companies need to do is work out something with those three age groups. One could buy the CD and have like three 'shares' on it. Something workable for those that love the music but don't have the money to buy the music. :)

  • 2 votes
#11.5 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:37 PM EST
etva

To be honest, M, I don't know anyone in that age group that uses CDs or DVDs. They use iTunes and netflix, and those allow for multiple users. I tend to think the real battle is between those who control the Internet, and those who don't. In fact, sometimes, it feels like we're being herded to downloads instead of owning.

  • 1 vote
#11.6 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:08 PM EST
mstanley2265

my granddaughter's buy the CD's and DVD's...and share them with each other and sometimes friends too. They're 22, 21, 20. But then they were getting CD's, since at least 12 and movie's from before then for Birthday and Christmas gifts. All my girl's love music lol All three have quite a collection when they aren't swapping out.

  • 2 votes
#11.7 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:13 PM EST
etva

But you know, people have been taping or creating new CDs for generations. I find it difficult to believe that that is what this is really about. The legitimate download sites, however, are fighting to maintain their business -- if THEY have to pay per download, and thus would have to pass the expense on to customers. Lots of different perspectives, I suppose.

  • 2 votes
#11.8 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:21 PM EST
mstanley2265

One of them was telling me, that they uploaded their CD to a website, (however they do that, I've never tried). I suppose like YouTube, and then someone else can download to their computer.

Lately, YouTube has been taking down video's that have a song with it or the whole video saying it's copyrighted. With some of the video's, you can still watch the video but no music and the other a blank screen. They are leaving the ones up that are older... so far...and the ones taped at a concert. But more and more the musicians etc are tagging to their own YouTube website. They get paid after so many hits as do the movie ones too.

When we embed music video's on the JukeBox Joint group, some of the video's won't play, though there is a notice to click on the Go to YouTube to Watch and then we can watch it. The rest are still available here on the NV.

  • 3 votes
#11.9 - Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:44 PM EST
etva

Oh yeah, Youtube is a whole different problem. I went looking for a new song to post in JJ. There were 10 videos -- none by the original artist, who hadn't yet released a video - or at least not on youtube. I certainly understand the frustration with copyrights and piracy, but legislation starts out sane and reasonable, and then morphs with add ons and rewrites into something so broad and complicated, that it is no longer comprehensible nor reasonable.

The real problem, as I see it, is our legislators writing bad laws, because they are "gaming the system."

  • 4 votes
#11.10 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:41 AM EST
Reply
Master Link

Great article, very, very great etva,

As an non-traditionally aged student, okay I'm in school and I'm soon to be 54 years old, I am in the trenches with the current crop of students.

First, we are asking them to pay for an education that is, let's face it sub-par, and I'm at one of the best community colleges in the country.

My grandmother graduated from school in Montana around 1920. She completed eight years of school, the highest grade available to her in the small Montana town she lived in. She also learned Latin in school. Few of the students in my school could pass the tests given at my grandmother's school, including myself.

Second, we are asking our youth to pay for this education with loans that they may not pay off for the rest of their lives, and they will never be able to default on these loans. It sounds a lot like indentured servitude to me. Get em' while their young!

Heck, I was bored in school in the 70s and we only had thirteen TV channels, can you imagine just how boring school is, to a person who is as bombarded with media as people of today are?

As to the societal issues you bring up, wow! Have we let our children down. I remember when I was in grade school stories were read to us, that had a moral at the end. Stories of sportsmanship, courage, doing the right thing. And, then many of the adults around me lived by those morals.

Today, we have Presidents changing the definition of "Is" to save their backsides, and we don't stop to think our children emulate what they see? Or the most powerful of business executives stealing in record numbers, obscene amounts of money, and not one is even questioned about their thefts. Or anyone of the celebrities, leader, sport stars we see caught doing dirty deeds, and rehab is the answer?

Somehow our children are supposed to see and hear these examples and be more moral than the adults around them. Why should they try hard in school? Just so they can be in a position within a large corporation to steal from everyone else?

The hippies were gonna change the world, "Down with the establishment!" Now, they are the establishment... more corrupt than ever. Where is the outrage?

Oh, oops..., sorry. I think I got a little carried away..., sorry...master links head is hanging.

  • 3 votes
Reply#12 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:00 AM EST
etva

Thank you Master Link, and your post was just fine. You're in a position to see an age segment, that I see less of. Those I do see are living at home with parents, taking community college courses.

The thing is, while society tells kids to work hard in school, they look around and see that society spends all their money on magic pills -- the easy fix for whatever problem, because we are so rarely willing to do what is necessary to really fix the problem, if it requires any type of hard work or sacrifice.

we are asking our youth to pay for this education with loans that they may not pay off for the rest of their lives, and they will never be able to default on these loans. It sounds a lot like indentured servitude to me. Get em' while their young!

Yes! That's exactly what it is! Entangling them into the system, before they are mature enough to understand the consequences. It's advertised as something good and wonderful, but the kids look around and see that it's false adverstisement, so they are no longer willing to buy the product.

  • 3 votes
#12.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:56 AM EST
Reply
Madison From Maine

Hello from the Northeast!

Literally just got off the Educator/Comedian Bill Cosby's website and reading / learning from his current "twittering." There is a BIG one to think about up there right now.

"Just remember, value yourself and you will value your children."

Bill Cosby, Educator and Comedian

(Powerful words)

  • 4 votes
Reply#13 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:09 AM EST
etva

Hi Madison. That's a great quote, and I agree, yet many of our youth don't seem to be putting that value on their education, as we (or at least I) do. I think we need to inspire them, in order for them to find value in something.

  • 2 votes
#13.1 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:08 AM EST
Madison From Maine

Probably what's needed is having good " role models" and as we both look around and "read" today, ROLE MODELS are sadly lacking, BIG time.

For instance, parents sitting around watching Jimmy Kimmel, etc. and on Facebook - "Why should I study?" Think I'll go and talk to my friends, too.

  • 1 vote
#13.2 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:16 AM EST
etva

We don't watch TV in my house, so I don't know who Jimmy Kimmel is - LOL, but I think most parents are doing the best they can in hard times. It's hard to be an inspiring roll model, when you're just trying to survive and make ends meet.

I think the bottom line is that, kids have energy and passion, and if we want them to use it for something positive, we need to inspire them - and perhaps ourselves.

I also think we need to address the hypocrisy, which is very evident to our kids, when parents tell them to study hard so they can get a good job, yet they see their well-educated parents struggling to find such a job.

  • 2 votes
#13.3 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:28 AM EST
Madison From Maine

Dr. Phil said something interesting on his program recently.

"Teach your children that if they get A grades they can expect an A lifestyle.

B grades and they can expect a B lifestyle.

C grades and they can exprect a C lifestyle.

D, E, F, etc."

Said it all.

(Of course it's about marks in the "Right" fields, Science, etc. I know 80 year olds who CANNOT keep pace with the workload on them both in Medicine and the Defense Dept while the mediocrities in wrong/unskilled fields can't find jobs. Those jobs are gone. It's a NEW world and people have to be RETRAINED and get a serious education if they want to make it.

Just sayin, as they say.

  • 4 votes
#13.4 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:37 AM EST
etva

"Teach your children that if they get A grades they can expect an A lifestyle.

With respect, I think that's part of the problem. That's what we tell our kids, yet they see around them that it isn't true for many who followed the rules and got A's. Personally, I don't know any parent who tells their kids, "Don't bother studying -- it's all a waste of time." My point is that our kids are smart, and they recognize a platitude when they hear it.

We tend to teach the easy answers, but it turns out, reality is far more complicated, and our children aren't blind to that reality.

It's a NEW world and people have to be RETRAINED and get a serious education if they want to make it.

I don't disagree with this, yet that retraining costs money that many don't have (often because they are still paying off debts from their "first" education.) For those that can't afford additional education, they are left struggling in this "new" world, despite all their previous good grades and studying. Our children see that, and it's not something to inspire them.

I'd also add, that from a teen perspective, if they are being "forced" to study in fields that won't produce good jobs, they're going to ask, "what's the point?"

  • 2 votes
#13.5 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:00 AM EST
Madison From Maine

(Don't think anyone is suggesting forcing teens to go into fields that WON'T produce good jobs; we guide them into fields that DO produce good jobs.)

As Dr. Phil would say: "Is it workin for us?"

No, so maybe we should TRY what he suggests.

What have we got to lose?

  • 2 votes
#13.6 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:45 PM EST
Dale95

("we guide them into fields that DO produce good jobs.)")

("As Dr. Phil would say: "Is it workin for us?"")

What good jobs??? Our whole narcissistic drive… our only purpose in our capitalistic advancement has been for bottom-line-profit… to eliminate jobs (automation, robotics and outsourcing)... for that, 'bottom-line-profit'.

Well... We did it! "We've come a long way, 'Baby'.". And now…, we have too many people---with not enough work for us all... NO! It's not working.

  • 3 votes
#13.7 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:03 PM EST
etva

No, so maybe we should TRY what he suggests.

Madison, I'm not sure what you are referring to. If you are saying we should try telling out children, "if they get A grades they can expect an A lifestyle," my response is that we already do tell them that, and it isn't working, because they see that it isn't so for those around them.

If that's not you meaning, please clarify.

  • 2 votes
#13.8 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:42 PM EST
Madison From Maine

Actually, prefer not to say anything more. My dogs are begging me for a walk, too!

However, we are ALL trying to help children and animals. And it is indeed frustrating for all. Sometimes it's best just to take a "comfort break" - as Judges say to jurors.

Have a great evening, really.

  • 3 votes
#13.9 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:55 PM EST
etva

We are ALL trying to help children and animals, however. And it is indeed frustrating.

Agreed!

No worries, Madison. Enjoy your walk, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  • 3 votes
#13.10 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:57 PM EST
Reply
Madison From Maine

Dale, want to read something deep and thought provoking?

Google: The Unabombers Manifesto

(Full text is there so get comfortable.)

Where Dr. Phil comes in at comment 13.4, is advising simply WHO will get the GOOD jobs that are left in the future, I believe.

(Also why BOTH political parties are trying so hard to get the 22 million illegals OUT of the country ; a numbers game now.)

  • 1 vote
Reply#14 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:13 PM EST
Dale95

I couldn't get that comfortable. That manifesto dwells on what is wrong... which is plenty… and it's good to know… only.. if you are intending to do something positive with it. Otherwise it will drive ya nuts... Pun intended.

("WHO will get the GOOD jobs that are left in the future…")

Cutthroat competition will always give rise to those obsessed with winning… ie, psychopaths, sociopaths, cheaters, steroid addicts, 'good ol' boys', with their free-meal-tickets ($$$), etc, etc, etc, (Political candidates, LOL).

Meanwhile, the good guy/gal always seems to come in last… especially when it comes to tipping the scales. What does that say about our "Free Enterprise Capitalistic Culture"? And the same kind of corruption is found on the other side too… Narcissistic Fibrosis. Our culture is riddled with it!!!

The only solution I have found is to get back to the basics --- (EMPATHY). Get a dog… live simple… enjoy life… and help others. Not very exciting… but… it's very satisfying… traveling down that, 'path least traveled'.

  • 2 votes
#14.1 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:54 PM EST
Madison From Maine

Dale, that's what we all want ! Heck, heard Ted Kaczinsky's old cabin is on the market.....tempted to adopt all the dogs in one humane society and MOVE THERE with them - to get away from our world today.

But the children today will have to eat in the future also, and have a roof over their heads, and that takes education/job skills., ie. money.

(Overpopulation in the extreme prohibits going back to farming, etc. for everyone)

  • 2 votes
#14.2 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:04 PM EST
Dale95

BOTTOM LINE!!!

We have every thing we need in this world to all live happy lives. There are tons of (honest) social-work opportunities that desperately needs to be done... if we could just set-aside our petty, greedy, competitive-obsessions to have more then the next guy… for a lot less.

I'm doing it now... in my book. It’s a fiction book, right now... but... Soon---it will be the reality that will change the world... My world anyways... plus a few other VOLUNTEERS (and our dogs) LOL.

  • 3 votes
#14.3 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:18 PM EST
Madison From Maine

Signed on already.

Ya got my number and waiting for you. Just let me know if you want Ted's old cabin. No running water, electricity, etc.........

Please, HURRY!

LOL

  • 2 votes
#14.4 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:27 PM EST
Dale95

You got a free... signed copy coming. Good chatting with you. :-)

  • 2 votes
#14.5 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:29 PM EST
Reply
mightyj

Etva- Great article. I worry about the de-valuation of education in our society. When you hear that an education is so valuable now that you need a bachelor's degree to get a job as a waitress that says to me that colleges are charging more and more for something that is worth less and less. I know some things about our society that pertain to this topic.

Our corporate society is not as efficient as many have claimed. The corporate structure of business will never be as good or efficient as Mom and Pop business. The reason Mom and Pop are suffering at the hands of the corporate structure is that the corps. use their influence to write favorable regulation that kills the small and inflates the already too large. On the ocean those corporate fools could not compete with us. They had to create ownership of the fish in the ocean to even have half a chance.

I think that there is a bright future for many kids in America. I just don't think the path to it is going to be the same one they sold us when we were kids. I know that I would talk kids out of getting into any trade involving lying and stealing money from working people. There are already too many people doing that now and I don't think it has the same growth potential as an industry. Natural resources are going to be extremel scarce in the future (unlike lies and money grabbing) I like any trade that has to do with providing a hard commodity (food, minerals, manufactured goods {micro manufacture is really taking off in America.....we make products for ourselves all of the time.)

A real game changer is the internet. There is so much to be learned here if one can only avoid the distractions.......sigh.

  • 3 votes
Reply#15 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 11:37 PM EST
etva

Thanks for your comment, JJ, and I think you made some important points!

there is a bright future for many kids in America. I just don't think the path to it is going to be the same one they sold us when we were kids.

I agree. The problem is that our education system hasn't adapted to address these changes. We are making promises to our kids and not delivering on them. They see it clearly, because they are in touch with each other, even after they move to different locations.

The corporate structure of business will never be as good or efficient as Mom and Pop business.

Exactly! And how do our kids know this? They see the "structure" in the classrooms - those boring lessons controlled and directed by the SOLs. Where do they learn? In small groups! The only thing they like about school are the small group projects where they are "allowed" to be the creative individuals that they were born to be.

A real game changer is the internet. There is so much to be learned here if one can only avoid the distractions.......

Yes, and I find it interesting how much talk there is about SOPA and ACTA among middle schoolers. Our kids are often accused of not paying attention, but perhaps its we adults that are too easily distracted.

  • 1 vote
#15.1 - Sat Feb 4, 2012 11:02 AM EST
mightyj

Would it be ok for me to ask you what you teach (subject) or at least what age group (s) you instruct?

  • 1 vote
#15.2 - Sat Feb 4, 2012 11:42 AM EST
etva

I'm a sub for our locality, so I see all grades and subjects. It allows me to see details, but from a distance, where I'm less "invested" in my opinion -- if that makes sense. An observer, if you will, though I recognize that the term "observer" has a negative connotation these days -- especially in your field, er, ocean:)

  • 1 vote
#15.3 - Sat Feb 4, 2012 11:52 AM EST
mightyj

"observer" has a negative connotation these days -- especially in your field, er, ocean:)

not with me. I like the observers because they record actual events. The lies being told are so much worse than the truth that the observer is our last line of defense. If not for them we would face all kinds of outlandish claims.

Substitute teachers get the really unruly treatment from the kids. I was sent to the office (justifiably) for messing up by quite a number of substitute teachers when I was little. You must be pretty tough.

  • 1 vote
#15.4 - Sat Feb 4, 2012 3:00 PM EST
etva

Then I'm glad to hear the observers are serving a positive purpose.

LOL - I don't think I'm tough, but I'm also probably not the traditional version of a sub, either. I'm always there -- somewhere, and know the kids and their quirks. I also know most of their mothers! *evil grins*

  • 1 vote
#15.5 - Sat Feb 4, 2012 7:26 PM EST
mightyj

Mom finding out is the worst. I had a lot of fun with my kids in school until they got to their teenage years and started being rebellious and stuff. Being on the other side of the issue was strange to be sure and having to go to school because somebody was in trouble was a pain in the butt. I used to get mad at my kids just because I would end up getting a lecture from school administrators about their behavior.

I felt way too old to be getting flack from a principle of a school.

  • 3 votes
#15.6 - Sun Feb 5, 2012 4:11 PM EST
etva

I'll take the principals to my mom any day. She still gives me flack! LOL:)

  • 1 vote
#15.7 - Sun Feb 5, 2012 8:39 PM EST
mightyj

Mine too. When does the advice stop? I am getting a little old and it seems kind of late for all of that.

  • 1 vote
#15.8 - Sun Feb 5, 2012 9:43 PM EST
Reply
T1Truth

Etva: Thanks for the link. I had not seen your article and am very glad that you provided it. You have hit a lot of things right on the head as far as I am concerned. I would add one thing in my opinion on this. One thing we miss now is great ideas and great goals as a nation. A nation, any nation, will sacrifice much and endure plenty if they believe it is for the good of the nation or to achieve a goal. The 60's saw a lot turmoil here in the US but there was a national goal of reaching the moon that everyone could rally around. In the 30's it was fighting the depression, in the 40's WWII, in the 50's the race against the soviets, and so on. Even in the 70's there was a common enemy in the mid-east and OPEC. This to me was the missed opportunity of many decades. If it had been played correctly to develop clean fuels as a national agenda at the time the nation would have mobilized for it. Right now our nation needs a goal and that goal is turning out to be rising up against politicians and corporations by default since there is nothing else being put on the table. Just my opinion.

  • 3 votes
Reply#16 - Sun Apr 1, 2012 8:25 PM EDT
etva

That's a really good point, Truth, and I agree that our society has no clear goal to unite them, other than their frustration. I think we see that frustration in the bickering over moral issues and right/wrong perspectives.

I'd just add, that I think we need a positive goal to unite us (rather than a problem) and this is especially true with our youth. They aren't buying into the propaganda and manipulation. They are just cutting themselves off, trying to live their lives without interference and hypocrisy.

  • 2 votes
#16.1 - Sun Apr 1, 2012 8:36 PM EDT
T1Truth

Agreed.

  • 2 votes
#16.2 - Sun Apr 1, 2012 8:39 PM EDT
Reply
Enoch-2699399

A problem with simplistic answers is that they don't seem to work very well in a very complex world.

  • 1 vote
Reply#17 - Sun Apr 1, 2012 8:47 PM EDT
etva

Very true, Enoch. One size rarely fits all.

Uh oh -- I think that might be a simplistic response! *grins*

  • 1 vote
#17.1 - Sun Apr 1, 2012 9:23 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

LOL. Good one. E.

  • 1 vote
#17.2 - Mon Apr 2, 2012 2:00 AM EDT
Reply
storyartist

A great article, etva. Your analogy of the stagnant water is so effective. Maybe because I've only been involved as a confidante to mothers of teenagers, not having teenagers myself, I look at less blame to the youth today than parents tend to have.

I hope you have a path to teaching and motivating your students in ways to drain the pond.

  • 2 votes
Reply#18 - Sun Apr 8, 2012 8:28 PM EDT
etva

Thanks Storyartist! I truly don't blame the kids (even when I want to throttle mine - LOL!) Learning and success don't have to be boring - nor hypocritical.

  • 1 vote
#18.1 - Sun Apr 8, 2012 9:01 PM EDT
Dale95

The generative and regenerative properties/capacities/abilities of the body and mind are the magical keys that this modern capitalistic culture has kicked to the curb in their greedy quest for profits. And in their process of raping and reaping all that wealth they have missed some very simple and basic truisms of life. The gutters are full, and ripe with potential and it’s high time we connected some dots.

DOTS OF POTENTIAL ---

All of our kids, including our troubled kids with un-harnessed energy fuses, those with mental/physical disabilities, and those with personality disorders all need a GENUINE reason for living. They all need guidance and a directional purpose in life, other than just serving as human lab-rats for Big Pharma and social opportunity-challenges for the professional elitists.

Millions of dogs and cats are killed every year because we only see them as household pets…, but they can be much, much more than just that. They can be, and should be learning/teaching tools!!!

And our elders, wasting away with atrophy in their rockers with nothing left to do in this world except die…, when in fact they hold more wisdom and potential than anyone can imagine. Regenerative magic---“Use it or lose it.”

Imagine three people, an autistic youngster (student), an adult (teacher), and an elder (mentor), each with a dog on leash walking down a path. They actively discuss problems of the world, ponder ideas for solutions, and exchange stories, visions, and insights. Their dogs are learning how to be well mannered pack members, the youngster is participating in real-time problem-solving interaction, and the adults are sharing guidance and wisdom in the stimulated arena of ‘walking the walk’ (exercise). A Win-Win-Win situation!!! The conventional tradition of sitting in a chair, in an office, or in a classroom, and learning/teaching about virtual-life is phony, inadequate, and it’s not working out so well.

Expanding Your Amazing Neural Network

http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/exercise.html

Throughout life, your neural networks reorganize and reinforce themselves in response to new stimuli and learning experiences. This body-mind interaction is what stimulates brain cells to grow and connect with each other in complex ways. They do so by extending branches of intricate nerve fibers called dendrites (from the Latin word for "tree"). These are the antennas through which neurons receive communication from each other.

  • 1 vote
#18.2 - Mon Apr 9, 2012 5:16 AM EDT
etva

Good points Dale. Reminds me of how many of our scouting programs work - outdoors, with volunteers, and a curriculum that reinforces that of the schools -- only it's hands on and without so many rules.

  • 1 vote
#18.3 - Mon Apr 9, 2012 8:45 AM EDT
Reply
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